हम जानते हैं कि युद्ध का क्या मतलब होता है, और गरीबी का क्या अर्थ है। दुनिया तक पहुँचने के लिए हमें अपने मौजूदा तरीकों से बेहतर कोई मॉडल विकसित करने की ज़रूरत है।
We know what war means, and we know what poverty means. We need to develop a better model for reaching out to the world than we have.
We know what war means, and we know what poverty means. We need to develop a better model for reaching out to the world than we have.
सच तो यह है कि आतंकवाद गरीबी की जगहों से ज़्यादा अन्याय की जगहों पर पनपता है।
The truth is, terrorism flourishes in places of injustice rather than in places of poverty.
The truth is, terrorism flourishes in places of injustice rather than in places of poverty.
समाचार का मक़सद रोज़मर्रा की ज़िंदगी की बारीक और छुपी हुई सच्चाइयों को बयां करना नहीं होता, लेकिन कविता यही करती है।
News isn't designed to talk about daily life in its nuances, but poetry is.
News isn't designed to talk about daily life in its nuances, but poetry is.
अब तक के अपने जीवन में जिस सबसे खतरनाक स्थिति का मैंने सामना किया, वह थी 2007 के आसपास नाइजीरिया के एक छोटे से शहर में बोको हराम से हुई एक मुठभेड़। मैं उस फ़ोटोग्राफ़र के साथ फँस गया था जिसके साथ मैं काम कर रहा था—वही सीमास मर्फी, जिनके साथ मैंने अफ़गानिस्तान वाली किताब पर भी काम किया था। जुमे की नमाज़ के बाद भीड़ के एक हमले में हम दोनों घिर गए थे। वहाँ हिंसा का स्तर इतना भयानक था। वह मेरे द्वारा देखी गई किसी भी अन्य भीड़ की हिंसा से कहीं ज़्यादा हिंसक था।
The most dangerous thing I've ever encountered was a run-in with Boko Haram around 2007 in a small town in Nigeria. I got caught along with the photographer I was working with, the same one I worked with on the Afghanistan book, Seamus Murphy. We were caught in an attack by a mob after Friday prayers. And the level of violence was so extreme. It was more violent than any other mob violence I have ever seen.
The most dangerous thing I've ever encountered was a run-in with Boko Haram around 2007 in a small town in Nigeria. I got caught along with the photographer I was working with, the same one I worked with on the Afghanistan book, Seamus Murphy. We were caught in an attack by a mob after Friday prayers. And the level of violence was so extreme. It was more violent than any other mob violence I have ever seen.
बुर्के में बैठी अफ़्गान महिलाओं को देखकर यह मान लेना बहुत आसान होता है कि, "अरे, वे उतनी जागरूक नहीं हैं जितनी कि मैं हूँ, तो फिर मैं उनकी दुर्दशा को लेकर इतनी चिंता क्यों करूँ?" लेकिन यह एक गलतफहमी है। वे अपनी स्थिति से बहुत अच्छी तरह वाकिफ हैं।
Seeing the Afghan women in their burqas, it's easy to say, "Well, they're not as fully aware as I am, so why do I have to worry so much about their plight?" But that's a misunderstanding. They are brutally aware of their station.
Seeing the Afghan women in their burqas, it's easy to say, "Well, they're not as fully aware as I am, so why do I have to worry so much about their plight?" But that's a misunderstanding. They are brutally aware of their station.
स्पेशल ऑपरेशन फोर्सेस की कार्यकुशलता और समझदारी देखकर मैं हैरान रह गया था। उनमें जाने-माने मानवविज्ञानी (एंथ्रोपोलॉजिस्ट) और पीएचडी के शोधार्थी भी शामिल थे। मुझे लगता था कि चूँकि पश्चिमी अफ़्रीका में उन्नीसवीं सदी के जिहाद के तौर-तरीकों को मैं समझता हूँ, इसलिए चरमपंथियों के युद्ध-घोष (नारे) को समझने के मामले में मैं यकीनन उनसे ज़्यादा आगे रहूँगा।
I was surprised by the level of sophistication of the Special Operation forces. Among them were anthropologists and PhD candidates. I felt because I understand the patterns of nineteenth-century jihad in West Africa that I was definitely going to be more advanced than they were in comprehending what the militant rallying cry was.
I was surprised by the level of sophistication of the Special Operation forces. Among them were anthropologists and PhD candidates. I felt because I understand the patterns of nineteenth-century jihad in West Africa that I was definitely going to be more advanced than they were in comprehending what the militant rallying cry was.
कविता मुझे उन चीज़ों के बारे में लिखने की आज़ादी देती है जिन्हें मैं नहीं जानता, जबकि पत्रकारिता में लिखने योग्य बनने के लिए उच्च स्तर की निश्चितता और प्रमाणिकता की आवश्यकता होती है।
Poetry allows me to write about what I don't know, whereas journalism demands a higher level of certainty to be worthy of being written.
Poetry allows me to write about what I don't know, whereas journalism demands a higher level of certainty to be worthy of being written.
मैंने दो युवा महिला अनुवादकों के साथ काम किया था। उनमें से एक की मौत हो गई और दूसरी को तालिबान से जान से मारने की धमकी मिली।
I worked with two young women translators. One died and the other received a death threat from the Taliban.
I worked with two young women translators. One died and the other received a death threat from the Taliban.
यह समझना ज़रूरी है कि हिंसक इस्लाम, हिंसक धर्म का सिर्फ एक रूप है।
It's important to understand that violent Islam is only one face of violent religion.
It's important to understand that violent Islam is only one face of violent religion.
अटकलें लगाना मूर्खतापूर्ण है, लेकिन मैंने कई ऐसे राजनीतिक अनुमान देखे हैं जिनसे लगता है कि तालिबान शायद बहुत कम समय में देश के ज़्यादातर हिस्से पर, और संभवतः काबुल पर भी, कब्ज़ा कर सकता है।
Speculation is a fool's game, but I've seen many political projections that look like the Taliban could hold most of the country, and possibly Kabul, within perhaps a short time.
Speculation is a fool's game, but I've seen many political projections that look like the Taliban could hold most of the country, and possibly Kabul, within perhaps a short time.
अफ़गानिस्तान का भविष्य बेहद अंधकारमय है, और फैसले बहुत तेज़ी से लिए जा रहे हैं।
The future of Afghanistan is incredibly dark, and decisions are happening incredibly quickly.
The future of Afghanistan is incredibly dark, and decisions are happening incredibly quickly.
हम जानते हैं कि ईसा मसीह ने सिखाया था कि अगर कोई आपके दाहिने गाल पर थप्पड़ मारे, तो बायाँ गाल भी आगे कर दो। हम यह भी जानते हैं कि पैगंबर मोहम्मद को उनके गाँव से निकाल दिया गया था और ताइफ़ में उन्हें पत्थरों से मारा गया था, लेकिन वह चुपचाप मदीना चले गए थे। अगर इन दोनों महापुरुषों ने—जिन्हें मारा-पीटा गया और लहूलुहान किया गया, जो अपने-अपने धर्मों के जीवंत प्रतीक थे—भगवान से अपने हमलावरों को माफ करने की प्रार्थना की, तो आज के धर्मगुरुओं की क्या औकात है कि वे धर्मयुद्ध की वकालत करें?
We know Jesus taught that if someone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to the left. We know that Mohammed was sacked from his village and stoned at Ta'if, but he quietly left for Medina. If both of these men, beaten, and bloodied-the incarnations of their respective faiths-asked God to forgive their aggressors, then who were today's religious leaders to advocate holy war?
We know Jesus taught that if someone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to the left. We know that Mohammed was sacked from his village and stoned at Ta'if, but he quietly left for Medina. If both of these men, beaten, and bloodied-the incarnations of their respective faiths-asked God to forgive their aggressors, then who were today's religious leaders to advocate holy war?
रैप में आवाज़ की ताक़त किसी बनावट या दिखावे को पेश करने की नहीं, बल्कि सच को बयां करने की होती है।
The power of the voice in rap is about the expression of truth, rather than the expression of some kind of artifice.
The power of the voice in rap is about the expression of truth, rather than the expression of some kind of artifice.
पूरी दुनिया में, पश्चिमी संस्कृति के मुकाबले कविता की छवि और प्रतिष्ठा बिल्कुल अलग है।
In most of the world, poetry has such a different reputation than it does in Western culture.
In most of the world, poetry has such a different reputation than it does in Western culture.
मैं कल्पना भी नहीं कर सकता कि अफ़गानिस्तान का पतन इराक के पतन से दस गुना ज़्यादा तेज़ गति से नहीं होगा।
I can't imagine how Afghanistan's fall isn't going to be ten times faster than Iraq's.
I can't imagine how Afghanistan's fall isn't going to be ten times faster than Iraq's.
अफ़गानिस्तान में कविता एक बेहद लोकप्रिय विधा है। अगर आप रेडियो ऑन करें, तो वहाँ कविता का कोई ऐसा कार्यक्रम चल रहा होगा जो उतना ही लोकप्रिय होगा जितना कि 'द रियल हाउसवाइव्स'।
Poetry is a popular genre in Afghanistan. If you turned on the radio, there would be a poetry program that would be as popular as The Real Housewives.
Poetry is a popular genre in Afghanistan. If you turned on the radio, there would be a poetry program that would be as popular as The Real Housewives.
मैं यह परख रहा था कि अफ़्रीका में धार्मिक पहचान का क्या मतलब है। इस्लामिक दुनिया की परिधि पर, कौन से पैटर्न पहचान को आकार दे रहे थे? और सच यह है कि जब मैंने धर्म के हिंसक रूपों के उभार को देखा, तो कोई एक पहचान हावी नज़र नहीं आई। यह ध्यान रखना बहुत ज़रूरी है कि नाइजीरिया में वह हिंसा रूपी पेड़ मुख्य रूप से ईसाई धर्म में जड़े जमाए हुए है। यह सिर्फ मिडिल बेल्ट में इस्लामिक चरमपंथियों की बात नहीं है।
I was examining what religious identity meant in Africa. Along the edge of the Islamic world, what patterns were shaping identity? And the truth is, when I looked at the rise of violent forms of religion, no single identity was prevalent. It's central to note that in Nigeria, that tree is rooted primarily in Christianity. It's not just Islamic militants in the Middle Belt.
I was examining what religious identity meant in Africa. Along the edge of the Islamic world, what patterns were shaping identity? And the truth is, when I looked at the rise of violent forms of religion, no single identity was prevalent. It's central to note that in Nigeria, that tree is rooted primarily in Christianity. It's not just Islamic militants in the Middle Belt.
मेरा पालन-पोषण काफी दिलचस्प रहा। यह एक सख्त और वैचारिक परवरिश थी, लेकिन इस सोच के साथ कि हम किसी बहुत महत्वपूर्ण और नेक काम का हिस्सा हैं। इसका मतलब यह था कि बहुत कम उम्र से ही हम अलग-अलग पृष्ठभूमियों के उन लोगों के साथ डाइनिंग टेबल पर बैठते थे जो ईश्वर में विश्वास रखते थे। जब मैं 11 सितंबर के बाद इराक और अन्य जगहों पर रिपोर्टिंग कर रहा था, तो मुझे लगा कि मेरे अंदर ऐसे लोगों से बात करने की क्षमता है जिनके विश्वास ज़्यादा धर्मनिरपेक्ष (सेक्युलर) पत्रकारों को अजीब लग सकते हैं। मुझे लगा कि मैं उन दोनों दुनियाओं के बीच एक सेतु या अनुवादक बन सकता हूँ।
My upbringing was pretty interesting. It was a rigorous, intellectual upbringing, but with the idea that we were a part of an important and legitimate enterprise. What that meant was sitting around the dinner table from a really early age with people from all different backgrounds who believed in God. When I was reporting in the wake of September 11th in Iraq and elsewhere, I felt I had the capacity to talk to people whose beliefs might sound outlandish to more secular journalists. I felt like I could be a translator between those two worlds.
My upbringing was pretty interesting. It was a rigorous, intellectual upbringing, but with the idea that we were a part of an important and legitimate enterprise. What that meant was sitting around the dinner table from a really early age with people from all different backgrounds who believed in God. When I was reporting in the wake of September 11th in Iraq and elsewhere, I felt I had the capacity to talk to people whose beliefs might sound outlandish to more secular journalists. I felt like I could be a translator between those two worlds.
अफ़गानिस्तान का भविष्य बेहद अंधकारमय है, और फैसले बहुत तेज़ी से लिए जा रहे हैं। अटकलें लगाना मूर्खतापूर्ण है, लेकिन मैंने कई ऐसे राजनीतिक अनुमान देखे हैं जिनसे लगता है कि तालिबान शायद बहुत कम समय में देश के ज़्यादातर हिस्से पर, और संभवतः काबुल पर भी, कब्ज़ा कर सकता है। मैं कल्पना भी नहीं कर सकता कि अफ़गानिस्तान का पतन इराक के पतन से दस गुना ज़्यादा तेज़ गति से नहीं होगा। उस माहौल में महिलाओं की स्थिति डराने वाली है, और बदले की भावना का विचार ही किसी भयानक सपने जैसा है।
The future of Afghanistan is incredibly dark, and decisions are happening incredibly quickly. Speculation is a fool's game, but I've seen many political projections that look like the Taliban could hold most of the country, and possibly Kabul, within perhaps a short time. I can't imagine how Afghanistan's fall isn't going to be ten times faster than Iraq's. The role of women in that space is terrifying, and the idea of retribution is a nightmare.
The future of Afghanistan is incredibly dark, and decisions are happening incredibly quickly. Speculation is a fool's game, but I've seen many political projections that look like the Taliban could hold most of the country, and possibly Kabul, within perhaps a short time. I can't imagine how Afghanistan's fall isn't going to be ten times faster than Iraq's. The role of women in that space is terrifying, and the idea of retribution is a nightmare.
दुनिया के ज़्यादातर हिस्सों में कविता को लेकर वह नज़रिया नहीं है जो पश्चिमी संस्कृति में देखने को मिलता है। अफ़गानिस्तान में कविता एक बेहद लोकप्रिय विधा है। अगर आप रेडियो खोलें, तो वहाँ कोई ऐसा काव्य कार्यक्रम चल रहा होगा जो किसी भी लोकप्रिय रियलिटी शो जितना ही मशहूर होगा। लोग ऐसे कविता नहीं सुनते मानो कोई कड़वी दवा गटक रहे हों। बल्कि, यह एक ऐसा लोकप्रिय माध्यम है जिसमें आप अपनी पसंद की कोई भी बात ढाल सकते हैं—चाहे वह तीखापन हो, गुस्सा हो या फिर कोई राजनीतिक बयान।
In most of the world, poetry has such a different reputation than it does in Western culture. Poetry is a popular genre in Afghanistan. If you turned on the radio, there would be a poetry program that would be as popular as The Real Housewives. People aren't listening to poetry as if they're taking their vitamins. Instead, it's a popular vessel you can fill with anything. You could fill it with sass. You could fill it with rage. You could fill it with political statements.
In most of the world, poetry has such a different reputation than it does in Western culture. Poetry is a popular genre in Afghanistan. If you turned on the radio, there would be a poetry program that would be as popular as The Real Housewives. People aren't listening to poetry as if they're taking their vitamins. Instead, it's a popular vessel you can fill with anything. You could fill it with sass. You could fill it with rage. You could fill it with political statements.
जब मैं महिलाओं से लांदै (पश्तो लोक-कविताएँ) सुनाने का अनुरोध करती और वे सहज महसूस करतीं, तो वे मुझे ऐसी कविताएँ सुनातीं जो उनकी अपनी ज़िंदगी की बानगी होती थीं।
When I would ask women to tell me landays, and they were comfortable enough to do so, they'd tell me ones that reflected the state of their own lives.
When I would ask women to tell me landays, and they were comfortable enough to do so, they'd tell me ones that reflected the state of their own lives.
मुझे लगता है कि ज़्यादातर अच्छी कविताएँ दर्द और पीड़ा पर आधारित होती हैं; और यही वह एहसास है जो लांदै की इन कविताओं में छिपे प्रेम के आधार में है—यानी पीड़ा और गहरी लालसा।
I think most good poetry is about suffering; I think that's what underlies the love in these landays pieces - suffering and longing.
I think most good poetry is about suffering; I think that's what underlies the love in these landays pieces - suffering and longing.
अगर हम पश्चिमी देशों की लांदै कविताओं को देखें, तो वे ऐसे वंचित समाजों से उभर कर आती हैं, जो शायद गुलामी की दास्ताँ झेल चुके हों। आध्यात्मिक गीत (स्पिरिचुअल्स) या रैप संगीत—वही जगह होगी जहाँ हमें अमेरिकी लांदै कविताएँ मिलेंगी।
If we were to see Western landay poems, we'd see them out of disenfranchised populations, maybe out of the legacy of slavery. Spirituals, rap music - that would be the space we'd find American landays in.
If we were to see Western landay poems, we'd see them out of disenfranchised populations, maybe out of the legacy of slavery. Spirituals, rap music - that would be the space we'd find American landays in.
अगर हम लोक-विधाओं के बारे में सोचें, तो वे उन हाशिए के लोगों की होती हैं जिन्हें न तो साहित्यिक कविताओं तक पहुँच की अनुमति होती है और न ही वह खाली समय मिलता है जो कविता-रचना के लिए ज़रूरी है। इसके बजाय, यह एक उत्सव जैसा है। यह एक बेहद असरदार ज़रिया है एक ऐसा पवित्र माहौल बनाने का, जिसका संबंध भले ही सीधे तौर पर भगवान से न हो, बल्कि इंसानी अनुभवों की सबसे गहरी गहराइयों से हो—चाहे वह प्रेम हो या शोक, अपनों से बिछड़ना हो या अपनी मातृभूमि की याद। ये सब मन की ही अलग-अलग अवस्थाएँ हैं।
If we think about folk forms, they belong to disenfranchised people, people who have not been allowed access to the poetry of literature or the leisure time that comes with the pursuit of poetry. Instead, this is ceremony. This is a highly charged way to create a sacred space that isn't necessarily about God, but is about human experience at its most profound levels - whether that's love or grief, separation, or homeland. All are altered states.
If we think about folk forms, they belong to disenfranchised people, people who have not been allowed access to the poetry of literature or the leisure time that comes with the pursuit of poetry. Instead, this is ceremony. This is a highly charged way to create a sacred space that isn't necessarily about God, but is about human experience at its most profound levels - whether that's love or grief, separation, or homeland. All are altered states.
लांदै की एक बड़ी खूबी यह है कि वे आधुनिक दौर में भी पूरी तरह प्रासंगिक बनी हुई हैं। शुरुआत में, मैं अफ़गानिस्तान के एक जाने-माने और सबसे ज़्यादा बिकने वाले उपन्यासकार मुस्तफ़ा सादिक़ से मिली, जो बीबीसी पश्तो के लिए भी काम करते हैं। कविताओं की पवित्रता को ध्यान में रखते हुए मैंने उनसे पूछा, "क्या आपको चिंता नहीं होती? इन्हें अब फेसबुक और दूसरी जगहों पर शेयर किया जा रहा है।" इस पर उन्होंने कहा, "बिल्कुल इसके उलट। यह एक लोक-विधा है; जब लोग इन्हें आपस में बाँटते हैं, तभी ये ज़िंदा रहती हैं और फलती-फूलती हैं।"
One of the things about landays is that they thrive in a modern context. Early on I went to this incredible Pashtun novelist, Mustafa Salik, who is a bestselling novelist in Afghanistan and works for the BBC in Pashto. With the question of the sanctity of the poems in mind, I asked him, "Aren't you worried? They've been posted on Facebook and such." And he said, "Just the opposite. This is a folk form; they survive and thrive as people share them."
One of the things about landays is that they thrive in a modern context. Early on I went to this incredible Pashtun novelist, Mustafa Salik, who is a bestselling novelist in Afghanistan and works for the BBC in Pashto. With the question of the sanctity of the poems in mind, I asked him, "Aren't you worried? They've been posted on Facebook and such." And he said, "Just the opposite. This is a folk form; they survive and thrive as people share them."